Sunday, February 3, 2008

A Spammer Responds, re: VPXL / Elite Herbal / Sancash / Genbucks

I received what is quite possibly a complete impossibility: A comment on this blog which wholeheartedly supports the spamming of VPXL, since it's such a "great product":

Hey, IKillSpammerz.

I purchased the penis enlargement product and used it continuously for 6 months. The product works well and I am very pleased with this product.

I have no problem with people selling stuff on the internet. Businesses around the globe use the internet as a vehicle to market their products and services to tens of millions of people every day. The retail market on the internet is a multi-Billion dollar market which is growing larger by the day, worldwide.

Personally, I have no problem with people selling their stuff on the internet. I sell stuff myself.


Wow. Just... wow This is one of the stupidest -- and most fictitious -- responses to any posting I have ever posted, ever, in any online forum.

I have a few choice words for whoever it was that posted this and assumed it was any kind of reasonable argument regarding the insane amount of spam which is present on an hourly basis promoting Genbucks / Sancash products:

1) You are rather obviously a spammer, and not a geniune customer. I am not overtly biased when I say this: the only time I ever receive this kind of positive response regarding what 99.999% of the email receiving public KNOW to be an illegal scam is when it's posted by a spammer themselves, or someone else within the spammer hierarchy. This has been proven numerous times, on several forums. (Including my favorite one, which spammers chose to attack extensively.)

2) Since this is not a blog which rails against "people selling their stuff on the internet" (I have absolutely no problem with amazon.com or ebay.com, and you will notice I never mention any [comparatively] legitimate online retailers who sell legitimate products) your comment is completely off topic. Online e-commerce is a great idea, and the companies who operate above board and market to people who WANT to hear from them are not mentioned in this blog.

I notice you worded your comment in much the same way as most spam messages we all recieve. You "purchased the penis enlargement product". Really. Which would that be? You obviously don't want to date your response, since the name of this product has changed approximately 9 times in the past six months. Only a spammer of these "products" would make that kind of choice.

Do you want to know the exact date I "opted in" to receive spam on behalf of VPXL or Elite Herbal or Herbal Max? Or Spur-M? Or WonderCum? Want to take a blind guess?

I can save you the hassle (but since you're a spammer, you already know this): I have never "opted in" -- EVER -- to receive email promoting this product. I never would. I have absolutely no interest in any "penis enhancing product" of any sort, but assuming I ever did: I would never trust that product if the only way I ever heard about it was via spam from a fictitious address, sent to me when I did not actively request it. That's most likely because I have a brain.

But in spite of this crucial detail, here's how much of my daily email intake is solely responsible for promoting this "product":

I receive 40 - 60 messages PER DAY promoting VPXL to only one of my email accounts. To my other three accounts which receive this type of spam - none of which were created for anything other than automated reporting of web stats and the like - I receive several dozen emails per day. I have never given ANYONE permission to send email to those accounts, and no living human being has ever been told of their existence.

As a test last year, a colleague of mine created a Gmail account which he never even used. He set it up, verified it, and left it alone for a month. He told absolutely nobody what that gmail account was, and he never posted it anywhere, in any public forum.

That account, which no human being is at all aware of, and which has certainly never "opted in" to anything, is currently receiving from 60 - 70 spam messages per day (all caught by Gmail's filters) solely for VPXL.

Explain to me, anonymous, how this can ever be perceived as "legitimate marketing" by anyone. Whoever is sending to my colleagues Gmail account is clearly attempting to send to the entire internet population whether they want it or not. That is just a blatant abuse of public (and in this case, corporate) services and processes, and costs everyone a huge amount of money every single day. It's fraud, it's abuse, and it's promoting a "product" which has already widely proven to have no medicinal value whatsoever.

I know of absolutely NOBODY AT ALL within my circle of professional or personal relations who has ever asked to recieved email regarding penis enhancement products, ever. I'm talking in over ten years of seeing the word "penis" in my inbox (which I certainly don't enjoy), I have never, ever, at any time, known anyone who was actively seeking these products, or who had ever given anyone permission to email them regarding these bogus products.

That's only part 1.

Part 2 is: there is a slew of very well written scientific evidence, especially in light of the investigative journalism the ongoing daily barrage of this crap unwanted email has given rise to, which unequivocally proves: this product is 100% bullshit.

The recent BBC investigation went to both a penile health expert and a pharmacologist. I myself have had communication with more than a few pharmacists regarding Elite Herbal / Manster / Megadik and (now) VPXL / Express Herbals.

I quote from the BBC article posted by Richard Cox on the BBC website:

Two weeks after I placed my order a brown envelope arrived from India. Inside was a bottle of Manster pills and the promise of a month's worth of enhanced sexual performance - although there is no mention of penis enlargement.

I sent the list of herbal ingredients to David Schardt, a senior Nutritionist at the Center for Science in the Public Interest in Washington DC.

He couldn't find any evidence to show that most of the ingredients would have any effect. What had cost me £35, he said, I could pick up for 50p in India.


This is only the most public, and most recent example of the exposition of this product as an outright fraud. In light of the considerable law enforcement and media awareness of this case around the world, that you would choose to word your pathetic comment in similarly vague terms is unsurprising, but phenomenally stupid.

Your idiotic comment is only present on this blog to somehow promote positive page ranks towards spam-friendly sites, most likely fraudulent comment spam postings. You are incorrect. You're likely one of the spammers (possibly the one who sends me the dozens of spams per day promoting this retarded non-product.)

Don't waste my (or the public's) time with stupid "comments" on my blog like this one.

I chose not to publish that comment, and instead opted to highlight it in its own posting as yet another desperate ploy by a scumbag spammer (or colleague of a spammer) trying to weight this blog in such a way that it end up supporting VPXL spam runs. It's still in the comment queue as evidence (since, trust me, law enforcement is well aware of this blog.)

Telling me that "The retail market on the internet is a multi-Billion dollar market which is growing larger by the day, worldwide" is a nice broad, pointless, non-statistical statement. You are purposely missing the point:


  • Nobody opts in to VPXL spam. Nobody. There is absolutely no proof that the morons behind Sancash spam have ever used a targeted list, and this is borne out by numerous comments on pro-spam forums and the recent subversive actions of Sancash by attempting to hide their new affiliate program's location.

  • The product is arguably fake, and overpriced.

  • The product does not do what it claims

  • The sites lie: they claim to be secure, when they are not. My own research has uncovered that not even the back-end processes of any Genbucks or Sancash website operates with any sort of security whatsoever.

  • Their emails do whatever they can to get around spam filters, highlighting just how illegitimate their "marketing efforts" are. Numerous incoming messages promoting Elite Herbals are virtually unreadable. The only one who can compare on this level are the idiots behind "Canadian Pharmacy", whose emails abuse so many services it's impossible to list them all here.

  • Their "testimonials" are completely fake and known to be written by staff members.



This rogue (and I hasten to emphasize: anonymous) commenter is only proving just how stupid a spammer can be. The only people who ever post this kind of crap responses are spammers. I have NEVER seen anything to prove otherwise.

As a final note: this blog has never claimed to be the expert on this topic. You can search the entire internet and find a plethora of similar distaste for this "product" and the individuals who choose to spam in hopes of promoting it. It is next to impossible to find any posting which is positive or supportive of the relentless assault of spam promoting VPXL (etc.) Don't just take my word for it, look for yourself.

SiL / IKS / concerned citizen

22 comments:

hohum said...

It's quite funny that you spend so much of your time on this endeavor. One wonders if you have any other life or perhaps you just stay at your computer obsessing about this subject.

Most people probably don't spend even 5 minutes a month being concerned with this.

Well to each his own, I suppose.

IKillSpammerz said...

> Most people probably don't spend even 5 minutes a month being concerned with this.

That is an absolute falsehood.

Illegal spammers cost law enforcement around the world several millions of dollars.

Spammers generally who attempt to flood the internet with so many unwanted messages cost everybody's ISP's millions per year spent on filtering, whitelisting and customer complaints.

> It's quite funny that you spend so much of your time on this endeavor.

I don't spend nearly as much time investigating these criminals as the FBI or Interpol do. To assume that I am merely an obsessed kook is essentially to say that you don't care that the individuals behind these spam messages are criminals. I don't know about you but if I were aware that crimes were occuring on my street, every single day, by the same ten people, for years: I'd kind of have to take notice. I'd kind of want to do something about it.

Go ahead. Call me obsessed. I don't care. This is crime, and it has been linked to real, genuine deaths by people who have taken these pills. Members of organized crime are the ones profiting from these billions of messages (soon to be trillions). And you don't care. So be it.

> One wonders if you have any other life or perhaps
> you just stay at your computer obsessing about this
> subject.

My life is just fine thank you. Thanks for the concern.

SiL / IKS / concerned citizen

Mar said...

Not enough people are concerned about crime in general, I believe. That is one reason why so much crime of various forms take place. I wish I could donate more time to the cause, but I do a little here and there, such as report spam, etc. Your reaction to that blog entry was an engaging read.

Anonymous said...

To whoever posts these blogs;

I'll start by saying I'm not an avid reader of your blog, just stumbled across it while doing a google search . In fact I don't have a clue who you are, but after only a few minutes of reading what you have to say, I've come to the conclusion you REALLY need to get out more.

You seem incredibly wound up about receiving annoying emails everyday...oh my god you poor poor thing. How about you head to Africa, sit with all the children dying of starvation and AIDS, and explain to them that while they may think they've got it bad, you have to select a number of emails every morning and push "delete". The children's tears are sure to flow after hearing your plight.

Get a hobby that doesn't involve a computer, or even better, set up a hotmail account, I have one and never ever receive any kind of email promising me a larger penis. Perhaps that's why you're so upset? These "spammers" keep promising you something you'll never have? Poor thing.

You really should chill out, all this stress over something so unimportant must be doing terrible things to your skin. But then again, maybe these sex pill people will have something to help with that? Perhaps you should email them requesting further information...

IKillSpammerz said...

Welcome to yet another posting by yet another spammer.

> I'll start by saying I'm not an avid reader of your blog,
> just stumbled across it while doing a google search .

A Google search for what, may I ask? The only time my blog tends to come up
as a result is during research of spam, spammers, or the criminal organizations they represent.

> In fact I don't have a clue who you are, but after only a
> few minutes of reading what you have to say, I've come to
> the conclusion you REALLY need to get out more.

Sounds like yet another spammer. :) I get out plenty. I travel plenty. I have a life. I'll go through the rest of your comment though, but as I said: this sounds like yet another spammer merely attempting to drum up the same crap they always do.

> You seem incredibly wound up about receiving annoying emails
> everyday...oh my god you poor poor thing. How about you head
> to Africa, sit with all the children dying of starvation and
> AIDS, and explain to them that while they may think they've
> got it bad, you have to select a number of emails every
> morning and push "delete". The children's tears are sure to
> flow after hearing your plight.

I'll say it again: If this comment was NOT posted by a spammer (and I notice that you posted anonymously, how bold of you) I would be extremely surprised.

Let's examine your argument shall we?

Sit with starving children in Africa: sure. There are lots worse things going on in the world. At the end of the day, starvation is due to lack of support, lack of quality organization of funds (witness Live Aid's fiasco after years of having the money and it going nowhere) and ultimately: corruption. Corrupt governments cause their people to suffer.

But the difference here is: I can't actively affect that even if I were to "sit with all the children" you speak of. Nor could you. It would take a gargantuan effort to make a difference. I fund several charities which all purport to assist starving nations.

The other thing here is: why do you assume that I *don't* hit delete? Or that I haven't been doing so for at least the past nine years?

After seeing the sheer volume of this crap continue to show up on an hourly basis, such that "hitting delete" now eats up considerable time: your stupid argument holds absolutely no water.

Add to that the cost that these criminals are foisting on to the Internet at large. We now have to have a huge amount of infrastructure in place to combat these messages which arguably 99.993% of the entire world does not want to receive. But you're okay with that?

Do you visit chess blogs and tell them that they're wasting their time talking about chess when there are starving children in the world? Do you visit federal funding research websites and tell them that since there are far more important things in the world to talk about than finance? This is an idiotic point of view to take.

Crime is crime. I choose to investigate the *criminals* behind these operations. It's patently obvious from my postings that it's about more than "grrr me hate receive emails!!1!". It's about a criminal community who are ripping everybody off, and putting public health at risk.

> Get a hobby that doesn't involve a computer, or even better,
> set up a hotmail account, I have one and never ever receive
> any kind of email promising me a larger penis.

This and your next statement are what confirmed to me that you most definitely are part of the spammer community.

I have several hotmail accounts. All of them receive a LOT of spam. You probably know this. But as the old adage goes: Spammers lie.

> Perhaps that's why you're so upset? These "spammers" keep
> promising you something you'll never have? Poor thing.

That is the most pathetic thing I have ever chosen to allow to be posted on this blog. And again: confirms that you must have an affiliation with this scum.

> You really should chill out, all this stress over something
> so unimportant must be doing terrible things to your skin.
> But then again, maybe these sex pill people will have
> something to help with that? Perhaps you should email them
> requesting further information...

I'll tell you what, "anonymous" (coward): The day that I see that the majority of spammers and criminal sponsors thereof are all locked up, or going offline (and trust me, that day is coming, witness the sudden disappearance of several large-scale spammers, and covert concealment of several of their sponsors, etc.) then this blog will have served its purpose and will either remain dormant or be archived and taken to some other web property.

Spammers like you can continue to be anonymous cowards, but trust me: your days as a profiting entity are extremely numbered, and even if you do: law enforcement and juries will see to it that you can't use them up.

I will very soon cease posting anonymous postings which make this same argument.

Just for the record:

- This is not a hobby.
- The majority of spam we all receive is on behalf of criminal organizations.
- I have a life
- I am not envious of the alleged wealth of spammers.
- I do hit delete, but that doesn't mean that I don't care about the ongoing criminal activity which spam represents.

SiL / IKS / concerned citizen

A. Dewey said...

I want to applaud the thorough and lucid comments that IKillSpammerz has to make in his blog about spam. He is obviously well informed on the subject and I do not fault him on his relentless efforts to inform us on how it adversely affects our lives through his website.

For those who think that he is just a kook or needs a life, I will say that if even one percent of the general population took his interest in publicly denouncing spam, then the world's law enforcement agencies would actually be pressured into taking real positive action and put an end to the relentless bombardment of garbage in our in-boxes that is increasing each and every day.

The truth in the matter is that most people go through their lives (if that is what you want to call it) and have no passion for anything. This universal indifference is why politicians continually get away with their corrupt ways and the criminal community also continues costing honest people billions of lost $$$ every day!

We need more people who are vocal about what is wrong in the world and we need them to make us always aware that we can do better and should do better.

My message to IKillSpammerz is keep up your good work because there are some of us who like to hear an honest person have meaningful things to say once in a while.

Anonymous said...

A.Owusu - I feel that we need people like IKILLSPAMMERS to alert us more and more. People who feel this is not important don't care about their lives how much more to care about others. If somebody would want to care about starved children and people living with HIV/AIDS, thats their call. If someone also wants to help reduce cybercrime that person equally needs our support

IKillSpammerz said...

Thanks for the kind words.

Noticing a trend in the negative comments? Focusing attention on this trade is "a waste of time" by someone with "no life" who is just "jealous" of the wealth of spammers.

It's been the same crap for years now, from the spammers. Don't you believe it.

Thanks again

SiL

P.S. I notice that they now have started spamming the next name for this "product": MaxGain+. It's still a bullshit (and likely fake or dangerous) "product". Don't waste your money.

Anonymous said...

I'm another tech who spends an hour a day reporting spam to SpamCop, Antiphishing Group, spam@uce.gov, etc. I applaud folks like IKillSpammerz for their similar efforts. Unfortunately the cynic in me says that the authorities are clueless and do nothing to stop spammers. The only folks in this fight are people like IKillSpammerz and other vigilantes. Likewise big companies in the computer industry are more interested in selling spam filtering, and consequently have no real desire to stop spam (why kill the golden goose). and here's one more deep thought..."the spammers send out billions of spam emails every day touting their identity so that they can sell product...so if those few morons who buy their products can find them, why can't the authorities???"

Anonymous said...

IKS,

let me start by saying that you are right on. VPXL has taken my f'in cellphone inbox hostage! i cant do anything to stop it and it drives me nuts! its a work phone that has never been used for anything other than work and ITS 2 WEEKS OLD!!! complete bullshit! these people aren't gangsters (in the classic sense), they are PUSSIES hiding in the dark of cyberspace. i cant tell you how much time i spend DELETING all this crap!

and to the Anonymous tough guy that wrote in...you are a total asshole. spam is the most annoying unwanted thing on this planet. i hope and pray that something very horrible happens to you.

IKillSpammerz said...

> spam is the most annoying unwanted thing on this planet. i hope and pray that something very horrible happens to you.

Well: judging from fairly recent history, they nearly always do. :)

Thanks for the kind words. Don't give up the fight.

SiL

jeremiah said...

You are my HERO. HOW CAN I SEND YOU MONEY?????

IKillSpammerz said...

> You are my HERO. HOW CAN I SEND YOU MONEY?????

Wow. Well thanks. However unlike the spammers I investigate, monetary gain is not any motivation for me. Instead, if you can assist in getting the individuals behind this operation locked up for 20 - 30 years (currently the going rate, considering recent arrests) that would be a huge help. ;)

Thanks for the kind words.

Tell anyone you know: Don't buy this crap! It's fake! It doesn't do anything! You're wasting your money!

SiL / IKS / concerned citizen

Anonymous said...

Don*t buy from spammers! Read this http://spamtrackers.eu/wiki/index.php?title=SanCash#Acquisition_of_new_spammers_.2F_mailers

Siva the Great said...

Hi IKS,

This is Siva from India. Eventhough gmail gives me plenty of mailspace I always try to keep it lean by deleting unwanted emails.Usually i just go to the spam section and just delete everything.

Previously i used to do lot of research pertaining to Email Lotteries, The Dead african generals estranged wife, Dead Business mans son wants to transfer money and all those similiar stuff.

I landed up in your page when i was searching for "VPXL" in google. Because I just opened a spam mail and wanted to see what bull shit stuff they sell. I opened two today one was an online pharmacy and the other was a herbal penis elanragement medicine. I was very much ashamed that both the products are coming from my country (India)

Once (When I was young back in 1998) I had even purchased online the "Penis Enlargement Technique" It was nothing but it says "Jerk Jerk Jerk (Jelq)- but dont spill" and "Keep a warm towel" I just wanted to know what these stupid guys sell at the back of this marketing screen. It was a real humbug.

There are so many people who get seriously annoyed by these spam emails. They are a real nuisance.

Second is criminal, I have spent so far $2500 in google adwords the cost of advertising in the google adwords would come down if the cost of spam management at google comes down. Which means I am inddirectly affected by spam.

I am ready to join a force with a good leader who can evolve,stragise a plan to counter (or to kill) spam I can also bring two more freinds to the force plus $10 a month ($10 when converted in INR is a significant contribution)

We can try to get donations. We will solicit organically, (means only known people will donate to known people)

We can make a webbased program (I dont know how)which can rapidly kill spam bots,disable spammers systems, send viruses in thier systems or some sort of technical stuff like that.

Please think on this..

IKillSpammerz said...

> We can make a webbased program (I dont know
> how)which can rapidly kill spam bots,disable
> spammers systems, send viruses in thier systems or
> some sort of technical stuff like that.


Unfortunately you'd have to be more technical or specific than you are being. :)

Let's keep a few things in mind here:

1) The sponsor organization behind this illegal spam (SanCash, in this case) is very much aware that they're operating illegally. Their actions in light of the indepth investigation on behalf of the BBC and New Zealand law enforcement makes this extremely clear.

2) Law enforcement is currently sifting through a huge amount of evidence so that just such a shutdown can take place.

But most importantly:

3) They remain as secretive as possible. Do you or any of your colleagues know the physical (office) location of Tulip Lab (the alleged "lab" which produces these pills)? If so: what, precisely, would you do about them? They are very obviously the ones responsible for these bogus "herbal" pills, and the shipping and supply chain of this whole operation. What would you do, precisely, if you knew their whereabouts? They remain extremely shady and secretive, and make it clear that they will aggressively combat any legal retaliation or law enforcement investigation. They have been doing so for years now.

So, while I can appreciate your comment, and your sentiments, unless you have a bunch of well-connected individuals who have any kind of method of infiltrating this group, it remains, unfortunately, a lot of talk. I know my own limitations, which are primarily those of geography and law enforcement connectivity. You are closer, geographically, but that only solves an extremely small portion of the problem of going after these groups.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I'm just not sure what exactly we could do better than law enforcement is currently doing. If we all exercise a bit more patience I feel certain that some major action against this whole operation will be imminent.

Thanks for your comments.

SiL / IKS / concerned citizen

Siva the Great said...

Ok, Tulip Labs, Let me see what i can do to locate that termite house.anything illegal is possibble in India. But nowadays the media is playing a very active role.lets see how to get around this.

William Brodie said...

Dear lord some of the replies you have received to this article make me fee dumb just reading them.

How can someone comment that you have no life when they themselves have just spent a good few minutes reading through something that we now know obviously has no interest to them!

I admit, I stumbled upon this article after getting annoyed at the countless VPXL spam in my inbox, I was actually looking to see if I could dig up any information on the company that produced it, as obviously I could find out their IP and find the location they were operaing from...

but anyway, I really enjoyed your reply to the spammer in this article and I have a feeling that some of the negative replies you received are from spammers!

I just thank the holy heavens that im a yahoo user! and we also have a spam filter. I have never actually had a penis enlargement ad in my atual inbox, but the problem is finding something that you fear may have ended up in your spam box, having to dive into that pile of horse shit!

Regarding the comment: "You are my HERO. HOW CAN I SEND YOU MONEY??"
You should get a paypal thing going so ppl can donate.


Have you seen the movie untraceable? i think it gives you a good idea of how these spammers run their business.

jeff said...

Hey, just found your blog. Let me tell you why.
These MORONS have made me their latest victim.
Their wonderful product that they are so proud of is being sold by me. Or so it appears. Emails that they're sending out are being spoofed as coming from my domain. So all the message rejection notices are being sent back to me. I am getting thousand of these rejections every day, clogging my mail server, filling disk space, and costing me money. I just hope my domain doesn't get blacklisted because of this.

The one computer that's sending these is based in Turkey. I've collected 42 different domain names which all sell this wonderful product. They all use the same Chinese registrar, with a whois record which is invalid.

I'm saving all this stuff, and have submitted it to the FTC under the CAN-SPAM act. Not that I have any hope of them doing anything about it. What can I do?

IKillSpammerz said...

I recommend you read several of the comments in this posting. Just like thousands of others, your email address has been used in what is commonly referred to as a "Joe Job" attack, abusing someone else's contact information during a spam run in the hopes of deflecting complaints (and bandwidth, clearly.)

What you can do:

- Report the spammer to the registrar of the domain(s) which are being spammed, and make it clear that your identity is being adversely affected.
- Do a bit of research on the domain. Make note in your complaint of the fake WHOIS contact information, a sure sign of an illegal spam operation.

You would be surprised at how responsive even Chinese registrars have been lately. One of the worst registrars in spamming history, XIN NET, also known as Paycentre.cn, have recently had a change of heart regarding support of illegal spam operation.

To do all of this: use the complainterator.

You're welcome.

SiL

jeff said...

Thanks for the help, one of the three Chinese registrars being used was very proactive. The other two, alas, were not. XIN NET is still .. not.

Just for reference for future readers, the following actions got them to stop bothering me. Look at the whois record for one of the sites being spammed. Or, look at two or three of them. There is a "registrant email" on there someplace. If you have a small operation like I do, you can set up the small number of actual email addresses in your domain to go to where you want them to go. Then, hopefully you have a "catch-all" email. Set this to the email address seen in the whois record. Voila! All of your message rejection notices are now going to the person responsible for sending them. After a day, point it back to you. At least in my case, it had stopped.

Well, actually, a couple days later, I started getting rejection notices from an on-line pharmacy scheme instead. Lather, rinse, repeat, and .. gone.

IKillSpammerz said...

While Jeff has a creative idea as a form of retaliation, this is not effective in most cases, since we have seen examples where legitimate innocent people's email addresses have been used as the fake contact information on several WHOIS records, most notably for Spamit's Canadian Pharmacy.

So: use with caution.

Your best bet is still reporting the domain and getting it shut down as soon as possible. We've seen recently that action eventually does get taken, which has a more devastating effect on the profitability of an individual spam run. My opinion: getting your single email address removed from one list will not stop this mailer from mailing again, or from still pissing off several million recipients. Shutting down the domain: that causes grief for both the mailer and their sponsors, since now they have to set up (or just hand out) a new spammable domain. We've had several thousand domains shut down. That's definitely a more effective route to killing their profits.

Still: definitely an original approach.

SiL